Aces @ UNI

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NumbersDontLie
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby NumbersDontLie » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:02 pm

I love the site https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/evansville/ as much as anyone, but good grief man.

Formatting is your friend.

PurpleWhiskers
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby PurpleWhiskers » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:03 pm

Aces44 wrote:Your statement was about Coach Crew’s time here at Evansville. You can’t include his stats at Army to fit your narrative(that is a different animal).

BUT if we are going to do that, you would have to include his run at St Louis where he DIDNT run the motion offense (he ran what is widely called the Butler Flow now..) and Won the National Coach of the Year!!


Moral of the Story:
Keep Coach Crews out of this, He isn’t the issue here!


At the time, I thought it was a mistake to let Crews go. His success here is only something we can dream about now. In his last year the attendance was double what it is now and there was a pep band at every game. But I'm not ready to deify him. Fans were not entirely on board with his motion offense or his recruiting. Granted, his motion permitted multiple shooters. It wasn't the single shooter Marty brand. But it still ran in slow motion with the "extra pass" and use all the shot clock doctrine. For four years, fans yelled at Jeremy Stanton, a great high school shooter and scorer, to shoot and for four years Stanton made the extra pass instead.

As a recruiter, Crews was often criticized for not recruiting more black athletes. His teams were very white though obviously not all white. I'm still not certain that it was a fair criticism because I do not know what in in his heart or whether he recruited them and they wanted no part of the Bob Knight system. Keep in mind, at St Louis, Crews inherited a team from Majerus. With Majerus players, Crews did make it to two Big Dances. His last year was the first year Crews had a team made up of all players that he recruited and they had a dismal losing record leading to his firing. When the Bilikens lost 5 Majerus recruited senior starters Crews was unable to rebuild.

One other factor played into the firing of Jim Crews. The Evansville Press had a bitter sports writer named Don Wade who covered the Aces. He was an outstanding writer from a writing craft standpoint but he was a staunch enemy of Crews and Aces basketball. Wade was an attention seeker and nothing gets attention like vicious negativity. He left Evansville for a paper in Memphis and covered the scandal plagued but winning program at the University of Memphis and he was happier than a speckled puppy. The truth that Crews and UE did things the right way never interested him. He preferred programs that cheat and win.

Aces1982
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby Aces1982 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:27 pm

Hindsight is always 20/20. Looking back, and you know what you know now. Crews should have never been let go.

Time in MVC

24 seasons....FIVE winning records in conference.
Crews had 3 in 8 years. 1 NCAA tournaments
Merfeld 0 in 5 years. O NCAA tournaments
Simmons 2 in 11 years. 0 NCAA tournaments

Merfeld, you could argue, coached in the 5 toughest years that UE was in the MVC. Multiple bids in NCAA all 5 years. One year had 3 teams and one year had 4 teams go.

Merfeld was giving a very short leash. If Simmons hadn't played at UE, he too would have been gone long ago.
Marty, mediocrity its what he does.
151-142
ZERO NCAA or NIT bids
9 years yet some want more of the same

svmar10
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby svmar10 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:38 pm

Well, OK here's some more nonsense (cont.)... The year after Marty graduated we landed a bulldog of a guard. He hung around the Crews "system" for two years and bailed. Sat out a year and joined up with another small private University called Xavier, ( an arch rival). After college he took an assistant coaches job coaching HS junior varsity girls. Fast forward to today. Chris Mack is coaching the number 2 RPI team in the country. Little Xavier is playing in The Big East, with only 3 losses heading deep into the NCAA tournament.

They got Chris Mack, we got Marty Simmons.... thank you Jim Crews.

PS, can someone look up Chris Mack's complete roster statistics for the last 20 years, Thanks

PurpleAces
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby PurpleAces » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:45 pm

svmar10 wrote:Well, OK here's some more nonsense (cont.)... The year after Marty graduated we landed a bulldog of a guard. He hung around the Crews "system" for two years and bailed. Sat out a year and joined up with another small private University called Xavier, ( an arch rival). After college he took an assistant coaches job coaching HS junior varsity girls. Fast forward to today. Chris Mack is coaching the number 2 RPI team in the country. Little Xavier is playing in The Big East, with only 3 losses heading deep into the NCAA tournament.

They got Chris Mack, we got Marty Simmons.... thank you Jim Crews.

PS, can someone look up Chris Mack's complete roster statistics for the last 20 years, Thanks



What exactly is your point? Yes Chris Mack was a good player and is a great coach. I'm surprised he is still there. You are making yourself look silly though.

SI_Acesfan
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby SI_Acesfan » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:04 pm

Tom Servo wrote:For the record, with the exception of Crews very weak teams towards the end, his teams never played liked this on offense. Never. They attacked. They got abused on the boards and on D at times. But he had teams that could shoot and score except his last year or so. I’ve seen a lot of old Crews games and the shot clock is never even mentioned (45 and 35 both) in the ones I’ve seen as his teams were putting the ball up.

I have no clue where Marty gets his philosophy. It’s obviously not going to work. That was just plain ugly...no way around it. That’s all I’m going to say about it.


Tom, let me channel Freud for a moment. He has been put up on a high pedestal since he was young. Throughout high school, in college, and when he was hired. He has been "the man" on the teams that he has played on......except the one that he left. He loves the "star system" because he himself has been a huge beneficiary of it. Just further evidence that guys who are always the star (vs. secondary, role player, or 10th man) typically (but not always) are not great coaches. Many examples of the opposite....Brad Stevens, good player at Depauw...not a star..... Mark Few, not a college star...... maybe Medved, he turned Furman around, has Drake moving in the right direction, student manager at Minnesota, didn't play.

acecard
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby acecard » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:32 pm

SI_Acesfan wrote:
Tom Servo wrote:For the record, with the exception of Crews very weak teams towards the end, his teams never played liked this on offense. Never. They attacked. They got abused on the boards and on D at times. But he had teams that could shoot and score except his last year or so. I’ve seen a lot of old Crews games and the shot clock is never even mentioned (45 and 35 both) in the ones I’ve seen as his teams were putting the ball up.

I have no clue where Marty gets his philosophy. It’s obviously not going to work. That was just plain ugly...no way around it. That’s all I’m going to say about it.


Tom, let me channel Freud for a moment. He has been put up on a high pedestal since he was young. Throughout high school, in college, and when he was hired. He has been "the man" on the teams that he has played on......except the one that he left. He loves the "star system" because he himself has been a huge beneficiary of it. Just further evidence that guys who are always the star (vs. secondary, role player, or 10th man) typically (but not always) are not great coaches. Many examples of the opposite....Brad Stevens, good player at Depauw...not a star..... Mark Few, not a college star...... maybe Medved, he turned Furman around, has Drake moving in the right direction, student manager at Minnesota, didn't play.

A lot of that same thinking has been attributed to major league baseball. Very few, if any super stars, have ever been successful major league managers. I can't remember who said it, but a long time ago I heard a baseball guy in management say that in his opinion great players never made good managers.

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Tom Servo
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby Tom Servo » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:08 am

acecard wrote:
SI_Acesfan wrote:
Tom Servo wrote:For the record, with the exception of Crews very weak teams towards the end, his teams never played liked this on offense. Never. They attacked. They got abused on the boards and on D at times. But he had teams that could shoot and score except his last year or so. I’ve seen a lot of old Crews games and the shot clock is never even mentioned (45 and 35 both) in the ones I’ve seen as his teams were putting the ball up.

I have no clue where Marty gets his philosophy. It’s obviously not going to work. That was just plain ugly...no way around it. That’s all I’m going to say about it.


Tom, let me channel Freud for a moment. He has been put up on a high pedestal since he was young. Throughout high school, in college, and when he was hired. He has been "the man" on the teams that he has played on......except the one that he left. He loves the "star system" because he himself has been a huge beneficiary of it. Just further evidence that guys who are always the star (vs. secondary, role player, or 10th man) typically (but not always) are not great coaches. Many examples of the opposite....Brad Stevens, good player at Depauw...not a star..... Mark Few, not a college star...... maybe Medved, he turned Furman around, has Drake moving in the right direction, student manager at Minnesota, didn't play.

A lot of that same thinking has been attributed to major league baseball. Very few, if any super stars, have ever been successful major league managers. I can't remember who said it, but a long time ago I heard a baseball guy in management say that in his opinion great players never made good managers.


Great points...I've talked to several others who have said the same thing. Simmons definitely was a star everywhere he went except IU. In addition to all that, another problem with coaches like him is that they can take for granted some of the gifts they had as players. I do think Simmons takes basketball IQ, shooting, size, and having the instincts to know when to pass and when to shoot for granted. He could do all those things and he was smart enough to play undersized inside and score. He thinks if players just listen to what he tells them and "buy in" to his game plan the wins will pile up with any guy he throws out there, because he was able to do it. Not every player can do that. That's just one of the flaws that he has as a coach but it's a significant one.

The one man star system is another big problem. He scored a lot of points when he played but he needs to remember he wasn't the only threat on the team. You had two other guys averaging around 15 a game and another one at about 8 a game. That makes a huge difference!
8-19 .....1986
16-12 ....1987 --- MCC Champ
21-8 .....1988 --- NIT
25-6 .....1989 --- NCAA
Key point, be patient, never judge a coach on Year 1!

evilleman
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby evilleman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:41 am

svmar10 wrote:Well, OK here's some more nonsense (cont.)... The year after Marty graduated we landed a bulldog of a guard. He hung around the Crews "system" for two years and bailed. Sat out a year and joined up with another small private University called Xavier, ( an arch rival). After college he took an assistant coaches job coaching HS junior varsity girls. Fast forward to today. Chris Mack is coaching the number 2 RPI team in the country. Little Xavier is playing in The Big East, with only 3 losses heading deep into the NCAA tournament.

They got Chris Mack, we got Marty Simmons.... thank you Jim Crews.

PS, can someone look up Chris Mack's complete roster statistics for the last 20 years, Thanks


That is the biggest reach in the history of PAF. Wow....

letsgoAces
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Re: Aces @ UNI

Postby letsgoAces » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:02 am

evilleman wrote:
svmar10 wrote:Well, OK here's some more nonsense (cont.)... The year after Marty graduated we landed a bulldog of a guard. He hung around the Crews "system" for two years and bailed. Sat out a year and joined up with another small private University called Xavier, ( an arch rival). After college he took an assistant coaches job coaching HS junior varsity girls. Fast forward to today. Chris Mack is coaching the number 2 RPI team in the country. Little Xavier is playing in The Big East, with only 3 losses heading deep into the NCAA tournament.

They got Chris Mack, we got Marty Simmons.... thank you Jim Crews.

PS, can someone look up Chris Mack's complete roster statistics for the last 20 years, Thanks


That is the biggest reach in the history of PAF. Wow....


It's getting a little weird now....


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