Non Conference Schedule Released!

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ncace
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby ncace » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:51 pm

Looks like Arizona has been given a waiver on their second Maui mainland game because there are few teams interested in being part of a Maui warmup. UE is fortunate to get U of I and Xavier but the idea of UNC Asheville coming to Evansville for a tourney is out, and supposedly Duke and Auburn will get waivers to schedule as they please for the Maui warmups. Unclear at this point about who might be the other two teams, IF we have a 4 team tourney at all, or whether we'll have to pick up a SWAC TEAM, or whatever. If we are fortunate, maybe a Belmont is available. It seems to be a last minute scramble, just like last year at Wofford, to find teams to fill out a "Maui Mainland" mid-major tournament.

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Tom Servo
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby Tom Servo » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:06 am

I had heard somewhere (not sure if it was on here or in person) that Marty got us in this tourney. It should come as no surprise to us to see very weak teams coming to the FC given that.

It's great that we got the two road games, but we'll most likely have to play very low level teams at home. It is what it is, but I'd really like to see us get back to playing in tourney's like the one in Ft. Myers, California, or even Nashville. As opposed to this and what we did last year. They don't really give the tourney experience like the 3 games in 3/4 day tournaments do.

Just my opinion, I know some will disagree and that's totally ok.
8-19 .....1986
16-12 ....1987 --- MCC Champ
21-8 .....1988 --- NIT
25-6 .....1989 --- NCAA
Key point, be patient, never judge a coach on Year 1!

ncace
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby ncace » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:19 am

Agree that we need to participate in tourneys that provide some value. Based on what's already advanced under Walter, I'd be very surprised if we don't end up in one of the quality 4 or 8 team venues like Tom has referenced. We'll probably still play Chaminade at home that weekend, and we might get another game as part of a quickly assembled 4-team, but we shouldn't be surprised if we get another D2 and maybe a VERY low level D!/SWAC team into Ford that weekend. I still have hopes that we can attract a couple of D1 teams that offer a challenge. There are still a few left, but non-conf. schedules are pretty well set for most teams at this point.

acecard
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby acecard » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:39 am

Don't know how well all this non conference stuff will turn out, but I think we can rest assured that Walter will get us into the best possible scenario that he can, which unfortunately may not be that much. The schedule as it now stands is way above what it has been in the past.

Purple&Orange
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby Purple&Orange » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:43 pm

Soapbox time......the format of these preseason tournaments isn't my cup of tea.

Gardner Webb got the most publicity and changed the game for these preseason events by knocking out Kentucky in the subregional of the 2K Sports Classic in the mid 2000s and punched their ticket to NYC, not UK and all the tickets sold to the fanbase that were now nothing more than wasted as their beloved Cats were not only not going to NYC but were not getting to play two games they thought they were when they agreed to be a part of this. It's why the Preseason NIT went away, the chance for a Drexel to upset someone like they did one year, or our Aces almost taking down the Hoosiers to set up a matchup with Duke for the Preseason NIT title in the mid 90s.

These tournaments are made for TV first and foremost but they are set in stone with the matchups for the final four in most cases, the 8 that go to Maui to ensure that teams get 4 games.....why go to Maui when you can play in another event and get an extra game? Plus in the old winners advance format teams had to block off a week for potential games and if something CATastrophic happened, like Kentucky losing two games plus a dead week built into the schedule, often around Thanksgiving when so many of these events are played, disrupting the natural flow of the schedule. These events are designed to make money for the group that puts them on and they want the BCS schools and larger fanbases that will travel, sell tickets, be a draw for whatever locale that is hosting, etc.

That leads us to today's version of these events where it's not really about the Mainland field, they are the afterthought........Evansville is lucky enough to get games with Xavier and Illinois in this, two pretty solid games to start off the season and if the field cannot be filled for the Mainland portion, well it's the cost of doing business to be included as far as event organizers are concerned. The carrot dangled out in front of the smaller schools is the matchups with the name programs, for the name programs it allows them to open up at home, get a warmup game under their belts before being possibly exposed out in Maui in front of the college basketball world.

That brings us to this Mainland portion. Is it worth it to turn over 2 games of your schedule in a tournament format to whomever makes those decisions when most schools who would be helping a computer rating aren't signing up to start with 4 games on the road, with the unknown factor of who else is making the trip. I'm sure there are assurances that by taking the Illinois and Xavier games that the other two games will be filled by somebody, but who knows who that may be. It sucks for Chaminade that they are getting booted, same for Alaska-Anchorage as the Great Alaska Shootout isn't what it once was, one of the charming and fun aspects of Thanksgiving week, always the unofficial kickoff to college basketball season.

The four team events will almost always pick from some combination of ACC, Big Ten, Big XII, Big East, Pac-12, SEC and American. Eight teamers like Maui, Atlantis, etc often will pick from those plus someone else, maybe two other leagues. It can be tough to get those marquee events, the standard to get into them is often challenging, especially Maui and Battle for Atlantis, the two biggest that seem to want as strong of a field as they can get. Even when you do get invited to something like we did out in California DJ's senior season, everything hinged on beating Providence to set up a matchup with Arizona and then either Michigan State or Boise State, getting the three best non-conference games by far. After the loss Santa Clara and UC Davis were not bad games, but the sizzle isn't there in name or number.

Your non-conference opportunities are tied into your reputation. Gonzaga, Butler (Horizon days), VCU, Wichita State proved themselves to be gets and their names carried something, opening doors. Loyola got a great start with the FInal Four but just as George Mason got there, they fell quickly and couldn't sustain. That's your challenge to really open doors in a non-conference setting. However it works out, even if it's not the most challenging games in return for the Mainland portion it'll be fine. Remember, a new coach and system along with a roster that half are playing their first games for Evansville. If the games aren't as great in name and number, they still will serve a valuable purpose for this squad as a way to regroup and continue to learn to play together. The same way we anticipate Xavier and Illinois will be tests for the Aces, playing against the "Big Boys" the chance that roles reverse and being the "big boys" against potentially lesser competition can be a great confidence boost as well for the squad as they will continue to grow as a team once games begin and before conference play starts.

ncace
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby ncace » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:21 am

This was a great explanation. Thanks for the detail, and you are right. TV and the big schools have the control. However, last year, Maui convinced Wofford to participate in the "Mainland", which earned Wofford road games at Cal and Michigan, like we got Xavier and Illinois. So far, so good, but then, when the other "big boys" failed to schedule their mid-majors, Wofford was left with a D2, a D3, and maybe North FL to fill a tournament they promoted TO OPEN THEIR NEW ARENA....which had to be a let down for them when they thought they would host a field like we faced in Nashville a couple of years back (a MAC, C-USA, and maybe a Horizon team.) So, this year, NKU decides late that they will hold their own 4 team, with Manhattan, Coastal Carolina and UNC-Asheville, any of which would have been a decent field for our 4-team in mid-Nov. To your point about mid-majors earning a "name" to assure a place in a pre-season field, UNI is supposedly booked into decent tourneys thru 2021. For overall value, I like our U of I and Xavier games. They are good early tests of where we are, and except for some possible TV exposure, we get the same benefit as if we'd gone to Maui...plus a couple of drivable road trips for fans. On board!!

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Tom Servo
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby Tom Servo » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:08 am

Purple&Orange wrote:Soapbox time......the format of these preseason tournaments isn't my cup of tea.

Gardner Webb got the most publicity and changed the game for these preseason events by knocking out Kentucky in the subregional of the 2K Sports Classic in the mid 2000s and punched their ticket to NYC, not UK and all the tickets sold to the fanbase that were now nothing more than wasted as their beloved Cats were not only not going to NYC but were not getting to play two games they thought they were when they agreed to be a part of this. It's why the Preseason NIT went away, the chance for a Drexel to upset someone like they did one year, or our Aces almost taking down the Hoosiers to set up a matchup with Duke for the Preseason NIT title in the mid 90s.

These tournaments are made for TV first and foremost but they are set in stone with the matchups for the final four in most cases, the 8 that go to Maui to ensure that teams get 4 games.....why go to Maui when you can play in another event and get an extra game? Plus in the old winners advance format teams had to block off a week for potential games and if something CATastrophic happened, like Kentucky losing two games plus a dead week built into the schedule, often around Thanksgiving when so many of these events are played, disrupting the natural flow of the schedule. These events are designed to make money for the group that puts them on and they want the BCS schools and larger fanbases that will travel, sell tickets, be a draw for whatever locale that is hosting, etc.

That leads us to today's version of these events where it's not really about the Mainland field, they are the afterthought........Evansville is lucky enough to get games with Xavier and Illinois in this, two pretty solid games to start off the season and if the field cannot be filled for the Mainland portion, well it's the cost of doing business to be included as far as event organizers are concerned. The carrot dangled out in front of the smaller schools is the matchups with the name programs, for the name programs it allows them to open up at home, get a warmup game under their belts before being possibly exposed out in Maui in front of the college basketball world.

That brings us to this Mainland portion. Is it worth it to turn over 2 games of your schedule in a tournament format to whomever makes those decisions when most schools who would be helping a computer rating aren't signing up to start with 4 games on the road, with the unknown factor of who else is making the trip. I'm sure there are assurances that by taking the Illinois and Xavier games that the other two games will be filled by somebody, but who knows who that may be. It sucks for Chaminade that they are getting booted, same for Alaska-Anchorage as the Great Alaska Shootout isn't what it once was, one of the charming and fun aspects of Thanksgiving week, always the unofficial kickoff to college basketball season.

The four team events will almost always pick from some combination of ACC, Big Ten, Big XII, Big East, Pac-12, SEC and American. Eight teamers like Maui, Atlantis, etc often will pick from those plus someone else, maybe two other leagues. It can be tough to get those marquee events, the standard to get into them is often challenging, especially Maui and Battle for Atlantis, the two biggest that seem to want as strong of a field as they can get. Even when you do get invited to something like we did out in California DJ's senior season, everything hinged on beating Providence to set up a matchup with Arizona and then either Michigan State or Boise State, getting the three best non-conference games by far. After the loss Santa Clara and UC Davis were not bad games, but the sizzle isn't there in name or number.

Your non-conference opportunities are tied into your reputation. Gonzaga, Butler (Horizon days), VCU, Wichita State proved themselves to be gets and their names carried something, opening doors. Loyola got a great start with the FInal Four but just as George Mason got there, they fell quickly and couldn't sustain. That's your challenge to really open doors in a non-conference setting. However it works out, even if it's not the most challenging games in return for the Mainland portion it'll be fine. Remember, a new coach and system along with a roster that half are playing their first games for Evansville. If the games aren't as great in name and number, they still will serve a valuable purpose for this squad as a way to regroup and continue to learn to play together. The same way we anticipate Xavier and Illinois will be tests for the Aces, playing against the "Big Boys" the chance that roles reverse and being the "big boys" against potentially lesser competition can be a great confidence boost as well for the squad as they will continue to grow as a team once games begin and before conference play starts.


Well said
8-19 .....1986
16-12 ....1987 --- MCC Champ
21-8 .....1988 --- NIT
25-6 .....1989 --- NCAA
Key point, be patient, never judge a coach on Year 1!

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COUTEAU
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby COUTEAU » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:23 am

Seems to me, the way things go, in pre-conference scheduling is you either, "get off the porch" or sit at home and the invite "smaller breeds", to come to you.
Don't believe any of the "big dogs", are gonna come sniffing around in our yard, until The ACES have visited them, (on their terms) two or three times.

Admittedly, there certainty are exceptions.
Networking & back slapping at NCAA meetings......Selling the program, tradition, facilities, community....Packaging all that together may carry more weight, than the previous season RPI, record, or performance.

I started posted back on the old Purple Code days and at risk of ridicule, will again suggest that The University should get the corporate locals and city officials involved and start their own Holiday round robin.
The ACES seem to have an excellent ambassador, in promoting all of the above, in Coach McCarty.
His enthusiasm towards the university, program and affection for the community seems genuine and infectious.
Time for The City of Evansville to, "Get on Board".
Sell The University, The FC, new hotel(s), entertainment and dining on Main.
Create a Mid-Major preseason tournament, that will be the envy the rest of college basketball.

wildbill
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby wildbill » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:07 am

The local pre-season tournament for mid-majors isn't a bad idea. I wonder how much interest we could get from other schools? Do you think it'd be OVC, MAC, etc., or could we draw from the MWC, A-10 level?

Ad1770
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Re: Non Conference Schedule Released!

Postby Ad1770 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:18 am

Well, to give everyone a heads up, it was announced that the Aces will be playing in Cancun next year for their holiday tournament. I believe that the athletic office is already setting up package deals for it.

Edit: If not in Cancun, then the Bahamas. The athletic office will have the information.
TIME TO GET IT RIGHT


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