StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Discussions of all the Aces sports
User avatar
Tom Servo
Head Cheerleader
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:08 pm
Fan Since: 1991
Location: Evansville, IN

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby Tom Servo » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:32 pm

There used to be an old saying - "If everyone is jumping off a bridge ..." my parents used to say that all the time. That seems to be the equivalent of the "climate is changing" argument.

I personally don't have any problem with Mizzou or you Mizzou Man (some of their other fans have embarrassed the school and themselves), but this BenFred guy has crossed the line and it really can't be tolerated. You can't write an article like that trashing a school, then get the statement you were looking for and then twist it around like a pretzel to fit into your original agenda. It's ridiculous! He's not some random message board poster, he's writing a national story. But in today's environment I can't say I'm surprised. Like someone else said...this the kind of thing that gives the media a terrible rap. Most of the media guys are great (Pat H. and many more local Evansville ones and many national ones I have a great deal of respect for), but all it takes are a couple bad apples to ruin the reputation for the whole bunch...
8-19 .....1986
16-12 ....1987 --- MCC Champ
21-8 .....1988 --- NIT
25-6 .....1989 --- NCAA
Key point, be patient, never judge a coach on Year 1!

Mizzou Man
Casual Fan
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:05 am
Fan Since: 2014

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby Mizzou Man » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:46 pm

E-Villan wrote:I will add one more thought. You do seem correct in that the SLU fans really hate you guys. I didn't realize that until today. I was aware that Missouri State fans feel the same way about you as well. I am sure you will dismiss it as hating the in-state big brother, but you don't see that kind of rampant animosity here towards Indiana, or from the Bradley and SIU fans towards Illinois.

What is it that makes all of these fanbases "absolutely hate" Mizzou as you so stated? I am sure it has nothing to do with cheating and a deranged fanbase.


Fair question. I am originally from the Springfield, MO area so I can definitely explain Missouri State's animosity: most of it comes from their school's name change in 2004 and Mizzou's opposition to it. They feel like politicians have historically favored Mizzou over them in terms of state appropriations, etc. Mizzou is the flagship but they see themselves more as K-State than Wichita State. Mizzou tends to act like they own the whole state by themselves. And they really hate that we don't play them in men's basketball.

With respect to SLU, firstly they too hate that we refuse to play them in men's basketball. Beyond that, I think that they feel like they have had some successful teams when Jim Crews was there for example and that Mizzou still kind of overshadows them in terms of coverage. Mizzou basketball was awful during the entirety of Kim Anderson's regime and when they hired Travis Ford they started to win out for a couple of St. Louis kids, notably Cart'ere Gordon. When Mizzou hired Cuonzo Martin, that dynamic in the city kind of shifted and they were worried that he was going to steal a couple of their commits. Mizzou, under Cuonzo, has done quite well in getting kids that were once committed to other places. I think that is totally cool myself. I'm a big college football guy first and foremost and it happens all the time there. But in basketball it is less common and the fans get really angry. That's basically it with them.

User avatar
pafan
Crazy Man
Crazy Man
Posts: 1265
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:17 pm
Fan Since: 2003
Location: Evansville

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby pafan » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:59 pm

Aces101 wrote:I checked with some Florida fans and their reaction was Mizzou - who cares, it’s Mizzou


Also: Who care's, it's football season.
PurpleAcesFans on Facebook & Twitter

Aces44
Bobblehead Owner
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:48 pm
Fan Since: 1992

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby Aces44 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:45 pm

Exactly what I thought Mizzou Man.
Run and hide when you get a taste of your own medicine.

Run. And. Hide.

Ad1770
Bobblehead Owner
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:25 pm
Fan Since: 1980

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby Ad1770 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:16 am

One more post on this, then I am done with this. I am going to address the elephant in the room that everyone is wanting to ignore (although they know it is there), and Mizzou fans are acting like it doesn’t exist at all.

It isn’t so much that Missouri’s compliance department is asking UE to lie, but the fact that they are asking them to lie to the governing body of college athletics. Let’s give a scenario here.

Let’s say UE “cooperated” (lied) to the NCAA about Dru to grant him eligibility.

Problem #1: UE now has a debt that they can not collect (because Mizzou would not pay it back), and they can not call it in without admitting that they lied to the NCAA.

Problem #2: UE has now given all power to Mizzou, as they know that UE lied to the NCAA, and can use this information in ways detrimental to UE.

Problem #3: If the NCAA ever did find out that UE lied, and in turn Mizzou used an ineligible player, who do you think the NCAA would come down on? You guessed it, UE. And while Mizzou might get a finger wag and told don’t do it again, they would absolutely kill UE with penalties in probation, scholly reductions, among most likely other things (remember, the NCAA loves to flex their muscles on mid majors for minor violations, while doing nothing to P6 schools oh routinely buy their best players.)

While all this means nothing to Mizzou fans, a sanction for UE could wind up being a death penalty. This was never about being petty. This was about looking out for our best interest, and keeping UE on the right side of the rules.

And besides, Mizzou never did ask if UE was ok with Dru playing this year. Food for thought.
TIME TO GET IT RIGHT

Mizzou Man
Casual Fan
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:05 am
Fan Since: 2014

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby Mizzou Man » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:18 am

Aces44 wrote:Exactly what I thought Mizzou Man.
Run and hide when you get a taste of your own medicine.

Run. And. Hide.


I'm not going to be here 24/7 but I am still here. Not running from anything.

I certainly think that a basketball player transferring from your school to my school and the process that surrounds it is not a "non-issue" as you describe. There are 153 posts in this thread so it seems more relevant than construction in a rural Missouri county. We can disagree over the column in the Post-Dispatch and how the two schools have handled things but I think it certainly is a story.

User avatar
Tom Servo
Head Cheerleader
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:08 pm
Fan Since: 1991
Location: Evansville, IN

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby Tom Servo » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:27 am

Ad1770 wrote:One more post on this, then I am done with this. I am going to address the elephant in the room that everyone is wanting to ignore (although they know it is there), and Mizzou fans are acting like it doesn’t exist at all.

It isn’t so much that Missouri’s compliance department is asking UE to lie, but the fact that they are asking them to lie to the governing body of college athletics. Let’s give a scenario here.

Let’s say UE “cooperated” (lied) to the NCAA about Dru to grant him eligibility.

Problem #1: UE now has a debt that they can not collect (because Mizzou would not pay it back), and they can not call it in without admitting that they lied to the NCAA.

Problem #2: UE has now given all power to Mizzou, as they know that UE lied to the NCAA, and can use this information in ways detrimental to UE.

Problem #3: If the NCAA ever did find out that UE lied, and in turn Mizzou used an ineligible player, who do you think the NCAA would come down on? You guessed it, UE. And while Mizzou might get a finger wag and told don’t do it again, they would absolutely kill UE with penalties in probation, scholly reductions, among most likely other things (remember, the NCAA loves to flex their muscles on mid majors for minor violations, while doing nothing to P6 schools oh routinely buy their best players.)

While all this means nothing to Mizzou fans, a sanction for UE could wind up being a death penalty. This was never about being petty. This was about looking out for our best interest, and keeping UE on the right side of the rules.

And besides, Mizzou never did ask if UE was ok with Dru playing this year. Food for thought.


Exactly...this is the very point I was trying to make earlier. Hammer meets nail...well said once again.

I will add one other thing...think very carefully about this. This is probably one of the main reasons UE allegedly didn't comment on this before (like others have said...maybe there never was a request to the athletics dept since it was "anonymous"). No body wants to throw athletes or other schools under the bus. However, the trash column forced UE's hand and they had to put all the cards on the table. It really makes perfect sense to me. BenFred poked the bear...and got mauled.
8-19 .....1986
16-12 ....1987 --- MCC Champ
21-8 .....1988 --- NIT
25-6 .....1989 --- NCAA
Key point, be patient, never judge a coach on Year 1!

User avatar
211N-69
Bobblehead Owner
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:48 am
Fan Since: 1964

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby 211N-69 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:52 am

BenFred still looks like a hero to the Mizzou crowd because he exposed the Evansville people as being responsible for them being a doormat in a conference they have only been in a few years. It is always easy to blame somebody else.

Yes, it is far more important a topic than chip and seal pavement in central Missouri.

I also find it a convenient rationale to toss this up in the air as, "After all, every student deserves the right to ...." and then compare it to getting the right to use the library at your new school. Not many student transfers are doing it because the research library doesn't measure up.

Athletes game the system and the coaches game the athletes. We are supposed to just accept that, buy our orange and purple beanie and say, "wooooo, we almost beat Illinois!"

Aces44
Bobblehead Owner
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:48 pm
Fan Since: 1992

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby Aces44 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:12 am

Mizzou Man wrote:
Aces44 wrote:Exactly what I thought Mizzou Man.
Run and hide when you get a taste of your own medicine.

Run. And. Hide.


I'm not going to be here 24/7 but I am still here. Not running from anything.

I certainly think that a basketball player transferring from your school to my school and the process that surrounds it is not a "non-issue" as you describe. There are 153 posts in this thread so it seems more relevant than construction in a rural Missouri county. We can disagree over the column in the Post-Dispatch and how the two schools have handled things but I think it certainly is a story.


You really can’t see how there was nothing to respond to?
This has only received attention bc of the way Ben Fred responsed to the adults in the room.

It’s a sad commentary on Ben Fred, the PD, and Mizzou fans that they are throwing a tantrum about not being allowed to eliminate rules they don’t like.
Good Lord. Grow up already.

Mizzou Man
Casual Fan
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:05 am
Fan Since: 2014

Re: StL Post-Dispatch: UE should "do the right thing on Mizou transfer Dru Smith"

Postby Mizzou Man » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:02 am

211N-69 wrote:BenFred still looks like a hero to the Mizzou crowd because he exposed the Evansville people as being responsible for them being a doormat in a conference they have only been in a few years. It is always easy to blame somebody else.

Yes, it is far more important a topic than chip and seal pavement in central Missouri.

I also find it a convenient rationale to toss this up in the air as, "After all, every student deserves the right to ...." and then compare it to getting the right to use the library at your new school. Not many student transfers are doing it because the research library doesn't measure up.

Athletes game the system and the coaches game the athletes. We are supposed to just accept that, buy our orange and purple beanie and say, "wooooo, we almost beat Illinois!"


I don't really see many Mizzou fans looking at the columnist as a hero. A lot agreed with his take. Sure. I don't know you or anything, but from reading some of your posts and how people have responded, I take it that you were once a journalist or reporter of some sort. And I can see that this subject, particularly the reporting, really grinds your gears. I believe in one post you talked about wearing purple and orange glasses now and I will be the first to admit I wear black and gold glasses myself. But it seems like you are in full Ace Purple costume. Heck, I am pretty invested myself so I could say that I am wearing a Truman the Tiger costume too. I feel like all objectivity has been lost here.

Mizzou made one of the biggest one year win jumps in NCAA history last year, made the NCAA Tournament despite not having the #1 recruit in the country for basically the entire season, and with a first year head coach. We'll probably take a step back this year without MPJ and with his brother tearing his ACL this year. That's fine. Things in general are looking up for us under Cuonzo. Things in general are looking up for UE with Walter. Both sides are looking solid moving forward so let's not play the insult game.

Both sides are discussing really two different things. For Evansville fans it is all about ethics and HOW DARE MIZZOU EXPECT US TO LIE!!! While for Mizzou fans it is all about doing right by the student-athlete. That is what both sides say. In reality, if what is in the UE release is 100% truth (I wonder personally) then yeah Mizzou seems to have been hoping that they would bend the rules a bit. Do a solid for a former-student athlete that by all accounts seems like a good guy. Is that right? I don't know. I honestly don't. You'll say "well take it up with the NCAA, don't make this about Evansville" and while there is truth in that, if UE had simply done everything in their power to help out a hometown kid nothing would have come of it at all. No story. Nothing. Mind you Mizzou has been on both ends of this already this offseason: Illinois helped us with Mark Smith and we helped NC State with Blake Harris. How were those approved? I have no clue. But both guys are going to play this season and that seems right to me.

Conversely the Mizzou argument is based in a sense that coaches can get fired or leave and not sit out, why should players not get the same thing? I get it, but truthfully the big thing is this: Dru Smith playing in 2018-19 will make Mizzou better, Dru Smith not playing in 2018-19 will not help Mizzou. Simple as that.

While I believe a lot of you really feel like Mizzou is trying to pull a fast one and do something unethical, I can't help but think that the undercurrent here is that your best player left, a lot of people seem to think that there is poaching going on, and why should we do a favor to help a program that just raided us? And why does Dru get to play while Sam Cunliffe sits? That is unfair. And I can't really argue with that. I get it.

I've defended Evansville quite a bit on this. When someone suggested on Tuesday that Mizzou fans should start contacting the UE Board of Trustees I wrote the following:

"Quick question for those that are so indignant about this that they are tweeting and emailing all sorts of Evansville officials this afternoon: do we know that Mizzou hasn't done something similar? For example the Ball State beat writer tweeted today that basically BenFred is being hypocritical because KJ Walton transferred to Ball State and had to set out (obviously a key thing there is did he try and get a waiver). And I remember when J3 transferred and we blocked quite a few schools and some of the national guys attacked us for it. Do we just not care about that because it's not a Mizzou problem? Or was it a few years ago and things are changing and darn it c'mon big bad NCAA and Evansville, help us get Dru eligible right now?

I think this is a slippery slope and that we will be the victim of some key player leaving someday and I am curious how all the outraged people will feel then."

I got some flak for that over there and I get flak over here. I can't win because I picked a hopeless position: trying to see both sides. Anyhow sorry for being long-winded (very long-winded) and I am not singling you out 211N-69, your post just seemed like the one to quote. Best of luck this season. Go shock people in the Valley. I plan on coming to Arch Madness and I'd love to see Evansville make a run.


Return to “The Aces”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests