Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

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Purp
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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby Purp » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:22 pm

It's going to be ugly at times, and at other times it will look like the team is about to take off. The important thing is that the players are buying into and learning the system. Enjoy watching the development.

Having said all that, boy was that a frustrating game to listen to.

mybigpurplebrain
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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby mybigpurplebrain » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:11 pm

Purp wrote:It's going to be ugly at times, and at other times it will look like the team is about to take off. The important thing is that the players are buying into and learning the system. Enjoy watching the development.

Having said all that, boy was that a frustrating game to listen to.


Try watching it then.
6 made shots, layups or bunnies and they win.

acecard
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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby acecard » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:30 pm

JohnU wrote:We need to stop beating up on ourselves because we have comments about a team that likely will lose 20 games this year. The world doesn't end.

I think it's important to not equate criticism with vitriol. There isn't anything wrong with commenting, pro or con, about how a team plays.
It's what fans do. My complaints aren't specific to this team, which I've seen 3 or 4 times on TV feeds. I don't know any of these guys or the people in the program. If y'all say they are nice people, committed, high-energy with morals and ethics, I believe you. If this isn't a good team, then it's not a good team. If it's good and doesn't play that way, it's fair to opine about that.

If somebody here wants to criticize the basketball team, don't swat them down by pretending to be some kind of kindergarten teacher scolding one of the children for having a poor attitude.

Seriously, these guys are young adults. You are not going to hurt their feelings.

But I also think criticism ought to come with at least a passing insight as to the who/what/why of the program. I think all of us are at that point.

This is certainly the best post of this thread.

PurpleWhiskers
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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby PurpleWhiskers » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:36 pm

mybigpurplebrain wrote:
Purp wrote:It's going to be ugly at times, and at other times it will look like the team is about to take off. The important thing is that the players are buying into and learning the system. Enjoy watching the development.

Having said all that, boy was that a frustrating game to listen to.


Try watching it then.
6 made shots, layups or bunnies and they win.


A lot of fans who can't go from the fridge to the couch without tripping over their own feet are appalled that kids can't make 100% of their layups going full speed 100% of the time. And some of us forget that in many of our wins over the years, the win was made possible not because we played great but because the other team missed layups, free throws and bunnies. It works both ways.

acecard
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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby acecard » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:54 pm

Tom Servo wrote:
Acepurple71 wrote:
GoAcesgo wrote:8 games in and some fans act like we have made a mistake in hiring a new coach, maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but come on man, it's a long season where is the learning curve, give them a break, This year is a crapshoot, I think we are going to be disappointed some nights and proud others, tonight we are disappointed maybe in the next 2 weeks we will be proud after a win.


Many are fair weather fans. They got what they wanted in a new coach and think we are able to get top 100 recruits immediately. Walter and his staff are doing fine. They are modeling the grow in the Butler and Gonzaga why. Knock off the whining.


I gotta agree as well, I can definitely understand the whining the last couple years, it was definitely warranted. But guys, some of you need a reality check. We have to remember what a difficult situation this is. This team really has very little to no D1 experience! Feehan is probably the most experienced guy out there. This is really Hill's first year, Hall played behind "the legend" last year, and really Frederking and Kuhlman did too. This is the way college basketball works, probably 85% of the time (maybe more) teams with a new coach really struggle in the first year for a multitude of reasons, especially one that only has 9 players! That's reality. Anything this team does this year is a major bonus and we should enjoy it but prepare yourself for more of this. Hopefully they continue to get better and continue to perform well at home. Sunday's game will be a very tough one, so let's show up to the FC and try to make the best environment we can for the guys.

What I hope to see is a really invigorated effort Sunday and maybe they might surprise a lot of us.

And pafan is definitely right, teams have seen the tapes and they know the weaknesses and they are going to exploit them. Until DC and Evan learn not to foul every 5 seconds the other team is going to attack them at will. They are also going to go hard after the offensive glass to attack us.

I should add, this is only directed at very few posters on here. Most understand the situation and understand what kind of team this is so please don't take this the wrong way if you are in the latter group as most of you are.

I'll add one more example of a new coach struggling in year 1 in addition to the Crews example. I'll put his records below here. I'll see if anyone can figure out who it is.

07-08 .....11–20.....4–14 9th MVC
08–09......17–17.... 8–10 T–5th CBI Second Round
09–10......25–10.... 12–6 2nd NIT First Round
10–11......29–8...... 14–4 2nd NIT Champion
11–12......27–6...... 16–2 1st NCAA Division I Round of 64
12–13......30–9....... 12–6 2nd NCAA Division I Final Four
13–14......35–1....... 18–0 1st NCAA Division I Round of 32
14–15......30–5....... 17–1 1st NCAA Division I Sweet 16
15–16..... 26–9....... 16–2 1st NCAA Division I Round of 32
16–17......31–5........ 17–1 T–1st NCAA Division I Round of 32

Tom, you of course, are speaking of Greg Marshall, the Shockers coach. I guess you are trying to make a point that there are some coaches who start out with poor records, who eventually reach the top of their profession. Maybe Walter will fit into this category also. Maybe he won't, only time will tell. It's being said that that we have players with very little D1 experience, which is true, but we also have a coach, who has no D1 coaching experience. He is the last reason I would blame for the season we are going to have. He was put into an impossible situation, and left with a very undermanned team. It will take time for this program to reach the heights we all want. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the shortcomings of this team, if they aren't performing to the level we think they can. I certainly don't have the answers, but I do think that this team is capable of playing better than it is right now, especially on defense.

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Tom Servo
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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby Tom Servo » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:02 pm

acecard wrote:
Tom Servo wrote:
Acepurple71 wrote:
Many are fair weather fans. They got what they wanted in a new coach and think we are able to get top 100 recruits immediately. Walter and his staff are doing fine. They are modeling the grow in the Butler and Gonzaga why. Knock off the whining.


I gotta agree as well, I can definitely understand the whining the last couple years, it was definitely warranted. But guys, some of you need a reality check. We have to remember what a difficult situation this is. This team really has very little to no D1 experience! Feehan is probably the most experienced guy out there. This is really Hill's first year, Hall played behind "the legend" last year, and really Frederking and Kuhlman did too. This is the way college basketball works, probably 85% of the time (maybe more) teams with a new coach really struggle in the first year for a multitude of reasons, especially one that only has 9 players! That's reality. Anything this team does this year is a major bonus and we should enjoy it but prepare yourself for more of this. Hopefully they continue to get better and continue to perform well at home. Sunday's game will be a very tough one, so let's show up to the FC and try to make the best environment we can for the guys.

What I hope to see is a really invigorated effort Sunday and maybe they might surprise a lot of us.

And pafan is definitely right, teams have seen the tapes and they know the weaknesses and they are going to exploit them. Until DC and Evan learn not to foul every 5 seconds the other team is going to attack them at will. They are also going to go hard after the offensive glass to attack us.

I should add, this is only directed at very few posters on here. Most understand the situation and understand what kind of team this is so please don't take this the wrong way if you are in the latter group as most of you are.

I'll add one more example of a new coach struggling in year 1 in addition to the Crews example. I'll put his records below here. I'll see if anyone can figure out who it is.

07-08 .....11–20.....4–14 9th MVC
08–09......17–17.... 8–10 T–5th CBI Second Round
09–10......25–10.... 12–6 2nd NIT First Round
10–11......29–8...... 14–4 2nd NIT Champion
11–12......27–6...... 16–2 1st NCAA Division I Round of 64
12–13......30–9....... 12–6 2nd NCAA Division I Final Four
13–14......35–1....... 18–0 1st NCAA Division I Round of 32
14–15......30–5....... 17–1 1st NCAA Division I Sweet 16
15–16..... 26–9....... 16–2 1st NCAA Division I Round of 32
16–17......31–5........ 17–1 T–1st NCAA Division I Round of 32

Tom, you of course, are speaking of Greg Marshall, the Shockers coach. I guess you are trying to make a point that there are some coaches who start out with poor records, who eventually reach the top of their profession. Maybe Walter will fit into this category also. Maybe he won't, only time will tell. It's being said that that we have players with very little D1 experience, which is true, but we also have a coach, who has no D1 coaching experience. He is the last reason I would blame for the season we are going to have. He was put into an impossible situation, and left with a very undermanned team. It will take time for this program to reach the heights we all want. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the shortcomings of this team, if they aren't performing to the level we think they can. I certainly don't have the answers, but I do think that this team is capable of playing better than it is right now, especially on defense.


Acecard, I agree and yes that's who it was. I certainly wasn't referring to anything you had posted when making this post. You certainly fall into the 2nd category of posters I am talking about who understand the position we are in. There is nothing wrong with discussing the team's performance or making observations, I love reading others thoughts.
8-19 .....1986
16-12 ....1987 --- MCC Champ
21-8 .....1988 --- NIT
25-6 .....1989 --- NCAA
Key point, be patient, never judge a coach on Year 1!

svmar10
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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby svmar10 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:19 pm

After 11 years stuck in the mud, it's like turning a battleship around in the Wabash! This isn't the only time we'll slam into the banks. but It has to be done to move it the right direction.

And of course there'll be those sitting on the deck expecting a smoother ride, and asking; "are we their yet, are we there yet?"

JohnU
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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby JohnU » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:03 pm

I guess the tub of chicken salad is appealing. The $5 a month I spend for TV lets me see the whole Valley picture so that's kind of fun to see the middles on TV. I've watched a few games so far and the only trend I'd like to see is less sloppy basketball. That's coaching at the grade school level, though.
I'd also like to see better officiating but honestly, the refs have let the game slide out of their hands. The Aces just aren't deep enough to get into a game where they throw the ball away and commit too many fouls.

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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby CoachD88 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:49 pm

All of us on the PAF have watched or been around enough basketball...be it grade school, high school, college or otherwise, to know good basketball when we see it. You don't have to have a ton of talent to play sound and fundamental basketball. I worry as I don't see a lot of that right now. I will state again...we are not talking about kids who have never picked up a basketball or played in an organized game before. As I have been told...I may be beating a dead horse...but I don't see us rebound like we should, move our feet on defense like we should, play smart when in foul trouble, know when to pass instead of dribble and recognize game situations like we should. Again, this has nothing to do with talent or even size. At this level of competition and coaching aside, these things should all be second nature to our players. No, some on the PAF may not have roamed the sidelines...while others of us might. We all just want to see an Aces basketball product we can be happy with watching and enjoy supporting. Right now...that is a little tough...new coach, new system or not.
Just my opinion...I could be wrong!

acecard
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Re: Evansville at Arkansas State 11/4 at 7 pm

Postby acecard » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:57 pm

CoachD88 wrote:All of us on the PAF have watched or been around enough basketball...be it grade school, high school, college or otherwise, to know good basketball when we see it. You don't have to have a ton of talent to play sound and fundamental basketball. I worry as I don't see a lot of that right now. I will state again...we are not talking about kids who have never picked up a basketball or played in an organized game before. As I have been told...I may be beating a dead horse...but I don't see us rebound like we should, move our feet on defense like we should, play smart when in foul trouble, know when to pass instead of dribble and recognize game situations like we should. Again, this has nothing to do with talent or even size. At this level of competition and coaching aside, these things should all be second nature to our players. No, some on the PAF may not have roamed the sidelines...while others of us might. We all just want to see an Aces basketball product we can be happy with watching and enjoy supporting. Right now...that is a little tough...new coach, new system or not.

Nail on the head.


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